fifa12_pc_hummels_tackle_edit_wm

Toby Ross

Xaor’s Corner: A Hardcore Solution

In the follow up to the ‘Hardcore Question’, I’m proposing a solution to FIFA’s biggest problem.  See all previous articles here

In the last article I wrote about what I perceive to be FIFA’s biggest long term problem. There, I explained my thinking that it is EA’s struggle to satisfy a wide demographic of people, all with vastly differing demands, which is leading to many of the game’s largest frustrations. In this article I want to propose a solution which is both feasible, and effective, providing a way that EA could satisfy a much wider demographic with just one game.

I think you can separate the fan base into those three (albeit greatly over simplified) groups:

Casual gamers and non gamers

The bulk of FIFA’s players; not particularly interested in a full on sim or a really challenging experience. Most want an experience which seems, on the surface, to be authentic, without minding so much about whether it is realistic. They also want to be able to enjoy FIFA without high barriers to entry in terms of footballing knowledge or gaming skill.

Hardcore gamers

This group is more interested in a highly refined gaming experience than they are a simulation of football. Generally speaking, they want a lot of control and as little randomness as possible. Many manual users fit into this group.

Football purists

Players who want an experience which comes close to mimicking reality. They want a situation where their level of control is abstracted from the exact details of a particular pass or shot, allowing them to concentrate on strategy and tactics. Their ideal game would be one where knowing about football, the teams and the players was the key to winning.

I don’t think many gamers fit exactly into just one of these groups as they are very wide and overlapping demographics: my reason for setting it out this way is to show that generally speaking, almost all players fit pretty well into one group. The challenge for EA is that the game that casual gamers desire is very different to the game the purists want and very different from the game the hardcore gamers are looking for. To have a chance of really satisfying each group, FIFA needs to be a customisable experience capable of playing in very different ways.

Sliders

EA definitely recognise this issue, and with FIFA 12 we saw their proposed solution. The idea behind the sliders is obvious: if we can tune the game to our needs then they can provide one game and satisfy a much wider demographic. This should allow them to sell the game ready made for the casual gamers, and allow the rest to alter the game for their needs.

To a degree this works: the sliders are invaluable in that they can increase the number of attacking runs in the game from the tremendously lacking default to a much more reasonable level. I can also make the passing a little crisper, and fiddle with the player movement a little to give a greater sense of momentum. Unfortunately though, this isn’t nearly enough. You can’t use the sliders to un-lobotomize the AI, and more generally it’s very hard to get what you want out of any particular slider.

As an example, the passing sliders are simply incapable of making the passing anything like what I’m looking for. I want to make passing more player-dependent, I want to make easy passes easier, and harder passes harder, I want error to be in terms of inaccuracy more than sluggish-bounciness, I want to see more difference between a Fabregas and a John Terry, I want to make the passing less lethargic and I definitely want to see the end of super-accurate 180 degree blind passes as well, plus reducing the accuracy of long balls, clearances and chipped through balls.

The problem is, the sliders effects are far too generalised to do anything this precise. I can make the passing a little faster, but I can’t make the passes less accurate without causing most passes to be terribly underhit at the same time. Similar problems exist with almost every slider in the game. This is a big problem, and one that can’t be easily resolved. If sliders are to work in FIFA, there either need to be a much, much larger number of them, or, EA need to work to make sure that the sliders actually do what is generally wanted, rather than these vague increases/decreases of certain effects.

It’s going to be incredibly difficult for EA to design a game which is not especially realistic and provide sliders to make it more so. It would be much easier to do it the other way round, designing a simulation and then toning down the realism with sliders. You simply cannot make a simulation without meaning to. There is another problem too, because sliders do not have any effect online, nor have any natural translation to the online game, which means that even if they do get the sliders absolutely spot on, it’s not going to make one iota of difference to many of FIFA’s most popular modes.

The problem revisited

For the reasons above I think sliders alone, even much improved ones, are going to leave us some way short of a fix. One reason for that is that frankly, we have far, far too much choice. When you combine the number of permutations available from the assists, the game speed, the user sliders and the CPU sliders, the number of choices available to us is absolutely enormous – we’re talking a number which is give or take, one trillion cubed.

It’s great to have a lot of choice, but with FIFA you’re presented with a literally inconceivable number of bad ones and remarkably few good ones. Offline this is annoying, as it means you have to spend a lot of time honing in on the right settings which is hardly what I want to do when I get a new game. Online it’s much worse, as you can take no advantage whatsoever of the sliders or game speed settings, and other than the one exception of manual on head to head, all the assistance choice has done online is imbalance the game.

We need a solution which can deal with these problems. A solution which is going to encompass the sliders, and the assistance, which will cover offline and online, and which will both ensure that people can get the game they want and ensure they can get the game they want without too much difficulty. I think the best way to do that would be to offer radically different gameplay modes to meet the different demands.

Solution

Splitting the game up like this would entail the biggest change to how people played FIFA this generation, and nothing should be left to chance. We can have no assistance style farce going on where most gamers don’t even know the settings are available, or a ‘haves and have nots’ situation where some groups are locked out of certain features: it must extend across every mode online and off in a fair way.

My suggestion is that EA should look to design three different settings, a standard mode, a simulation mode, and a manual mode which are aimed at particular segments of the fanbase. Each mode would play differently in gameplay, and this would by implemented by EA as presets of sliders, assists, game speed and so on. Offline they would be something you could choose for a quick setup, but online these would be the three ways that you could play the game (the manual filter would disappear as it would become mostly redundant).

It’s important that these modes aren’t hidden, though it seems sensible that the default mode should be ‘Standard’, the choice should be made clear when you are starting the game (perhaps replacing the ‘Beginner’, ‘Intermediate’, ‘Expert’ choice?), and when you go online. FIFA should show off the fact it caters to such distinct demographics.

Some might wonder why there are just three settings, after all, surely the more choice the better? Well, here I don’t think so. It’s crucial that each mode has a sufficient player base to populate each mode, and therefore I think it’s better to condense it into three modes than to have more but find them underpopulated. If they all work well, then more can be added later.

The Modes

Standard

Assistance: Unrestricted
Context-based error: Low
Player-stats-dependence: Moderate
Played by: Most

This mode would be most similar to FIFA as it is now, though I would imagine it would tend to be a little more casual than the current FIFA. Not having to worry about what more hardcore players might think would free up EA to set it up for the broad casual base more easily, so, for example, it might not include Pro Passing or Tactical Defending.

Manual

Assistance: Restricted to no assistance
Context-based error: None
Player-based error: None
Player-stats-dependence: Low

Played by: Pro and hardcore gamers, FIWC/Arena standard

Here, elements that could be deemed as unfairness are removed, like random contextual error, and personality based error, all of which are arguably realistic but not necessarily desirable in gameplay. Most importantly, assistance is reduced to an absolute minimum so that victory is dictated by gaming skills above all. A lot of current manual fanatics would likely find this to be their favourite mode.

Purist

Assistance: Moderate assistance
Context-based error: High
Player-stats-dependence: High
Played by: Simulation lovers

This mode is the one for the hardcore football fans, designed to be as realistic as FIFA can be. Here, player personalities are at their most clear, as is contextual error. Many of the things I’ve suggested on this blog would be included here, like blind-pass inaccuracy, realistic motion physics, removing the contain function, and much more. Assistance would be offered so that it is feasible to mimic the best footballing teams, as well as meaning that the level of control is at a higher level, allowing players to focus  on the strategy and tactics.

Between these modes, I think that not only would most people feel a lot better catered for than they do right now with FIFA 12, but that that each mode could sustain a decent population too. It would require plenty of work on EA’s end, but I think it would pay dividends in terms of unlocking the true potential of technically brilliant game mechanics like Vision AI, tactical defending, and pro passing which are muffled currently. Imagine too how much better playing on manual would be if the rest of the game was tuned to play with it: no more imbalance between super human keepers and the difficulty of manual shooting.

This is obviously not the only way EA could go, but I do think this solution is one of the most viable. It’s something I think you could realistically imagine EA doing in the medium term, I don’t think it would be especially costly, and most importantly it won’t degrade the experience for casual players. Not many other suggestions I’ve seen fit those criteria. One way or another, I believe that if something like this isn’t done we are doomed to a cycle of disappointment, so for me, this is the solution to the hardcore question.

56 Responses to Xaor’s Corner: A Hardcore Solution

We use Gravatar for the user icons in the comments below - sign up for a Gravatar account here.

  1. David says:

    @Toby; I don’t think the name arcade is not so much about causing complaints or problems but more so about causing confusion among gamers. Upon finding these arcade setting, gamers looking for some quick pick-up-and-play action would become confused when coming across all these manual controls. So I’m not against calling it arcade or whatever you want to call it, it makes no difference to me. Its more about the confusion that the name would cause. I guess “manual” would fit the name better, at least for the majority of gamers.

  2. Toby Ross says:

    I agree that manual is a better description – hence why I’ve changed it. I still think it is, in its essence, arcade though.

  3. Toby Ross says:

    @galloitaliano:

    I’m just not convinced. Even when FIFA is playing well, there are still a lot of moments where players will go into tackles and come out on the other side with the ball for no reason, instances where my AI goes nuts, and so on and so on and so on.

    Some games it doesn’t seem that way – but I think that’s often down to the respective teams and their respective tactics and strategies. Games which become very physical, for example, usually become the more luck based ones. Games with a lot of crossing too, often become very luck based.

    That’s the thing – I’ve often felt thoroughly cheated, but I’ve never felt the game has some agenda to make it happen. One way or another, there is a massive problem which has to be solved.

  4. David says:

    @Toby: Agree with you.

  5. galloitaliano says:

    No, mate, I think you got it all wrong. It’s not about lucky goals that I’m complaining about, what I’m saying is that my players suddenly stop defendinf, they never rush to tackle the ball-carrier, they never rush to block the shot, they never rush to collect loose balls, they never rush to do anything at all. I can deal with those lucky, random goals… point is though is that the game is giving the other side a massive, massive, massive advantange by forcing YOU into making “mistakes”. This problem persists until the opposition scores, once he scores your players are “back to normal”, they now defend, tackle, rush to block shots, etc.,

    The hadicapping is so evident because your players just don’t wanna help you at all, they just don’t want to give you help, any assistance. Passes go astray for no reason, passes go exactly where you didn’t point the Left Stick to, off shots, it’s just nut right man.

    Although I don’t blame you for not believing in it, because it’s really hard to believe it until it happens to you, mate. It has to happen to you in the way I’ve described it to you in this blog.

    Hence I stopped playing with 5 stared teams, since it’s more obvious when you play with them, but if you play with 4 stared teams and below this issue seems to be off of the game, and I don’t know why. This weekend I played mostly with 4 stared teams and, mate did I enjoyed the game? I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed Fifa 12, but when I played with Real Madrid, Manchester United, England, Portugal it just felt wrong, it’s when you play with these teams that the game feels so horribly designed.

    Hope you can give 5* teams a go so you can see it for yourself, bro.

    Are you on PS3 by chance?

    Cheers.

  6. Toby Ross says:

    @galloitaliano:

    The thing is, I play FIFA a lot, I play it offline and online, I play it with a huge variety of teams from the very weakest to the very strongest, and while I very often think the game is being skewed one way or another, I still always think it’s explainable down to certain factors.

    I just don’t think I’ve ever felt ‘handicapping’ in the way you explain it. I always feel, whether it makes any remote footballing sense or not, that you can explain it through a combination of formation, mentality, custom tactics, sheer randomness, the overpoweredness of physical attributes, and so forth. For example, I think it’s fairly easy to explain why the 5 star teams feel so much worse – because their players are much faster, and much stronger, and the teams generally pressure a lot more. This leads to a lot more tackles, and tackles are very often where the biggest elements of randomness occur.

    In any case, I don’t think the argument is that fruitful. There is a massive problem whether or not there is scripting. We may as well attack the elements of it which can be shown explicitly to be there, rather than the elements that EA (rightly or wrongly) deny exist.

  7. galloitaliano says:

    I see where you’re coming from. But that shouldn’t have anything to do with the way my players behave on the pitch, nor my opponent’s tactics have any direct effect on my players movements, responsiveness, reactions, etc.

    Think about it, if I’m playing a match with Real Madrid vs Real Madrid how come, then, than one Pepe is stronger and faster than the other? Or how come one Cristiano Ronaldo or Benzemá is way more active, responsive, faster and stronger than the other? It just doesn’t make any sense, because shoudln’t both Ronaldo’s, Pepe’s or Benzema’s be just as strong as each other? I mean, how do you explain these problems?

    Heck I even created a Custom Formation to if that improves my players performances but no, it just didn’t do anything to help it. If anything, my players just worsened. I have changed formations, players, etc., nothing of that helps at all, mate.

    What I mean is that my opponent’s TACTICS, FORMATIONS, etc should not have a direct impact on how my players react to certain situations, that shouldn’t have any impact on them, if anything it should be ME the one that’s panicking, not my players.

    Again, mate, the opposition’s tactics/formations, have nothing to do with my players responsiveness. It’s EA’s way, however, of balancing the game.

    Just to clarify, this is not a direct attack on you, just because whether or not you believe in the hadicapping or not :)

    I know there is a problem when my players atke AGES to move, to spin or turn (even when I have nobody near the ball-carrier, he takes forever to move, spin or turn), players just don’t respond to the button input fast enough, the “running on mud” problem, the “I won’t help you/you’re on your own” attitude, the fretfulness of my players… this is exactly what’s killing me, the fretful attitude my players seems to be in when I’m playing those types of matches, the sluggishness to react or do what I commanded them to do.

    Oh and before I forget, the reason I don’t believe my opponent’s tactics, formations, players’ mentality have a direct impact on my players is because I have played matches on which my oppo is using custom formations, he has changed mhis players’ mentality, etc., but that doesn’t do anything negatively to my players in terms of reactions, responsiveness, button input, etc., it’s the opposite, my players seem fast, respnsive, active and helpful… so I think it’s down to the hadicapping.

    Cheers.

  8. Nick Harrington says:

    @Toby

    I’m not talking about manual at all. I realise that’s what your article is talking about, control schemes would be irrelevant if they were programmed better.

    I’m talking about the game making decisions on the player’s behalf. Therefore taking away the realms of choice – thus removing interactivity. The simulation comes from making the choices players make.

    Choices like – ‘shall I stretch for the long ball over the top when I know I’ll never get it’ = Fifa’s scripting/Yes Gamer/No

    ‘Shall I slow down because that ball is destined to run out of play for the sake of the game having the need to generate a throw in?’ = Fifa’s scripting/Yes Gamer/No.

    etc.

    These are just some of the examples of how the game removes us from the experience so that it can create one that represents the real life game it’s trying to simulate.

    I’m saying for Fifa to be a great game, with a whole ton of less frustration, it needs to be created so that we can forge our own footballing experience without it yanking back on the chain so hard every time we step near a boundary.

    In my opinion, (and that’s all it is) Fifa’s scripting (and by that I don’t mean match scripting, I mean involuntary animation and it’s blatent ignorance to command input when it suits it) is only there to hide a multitude of sins.

    I wouldn’t call myself a hardcore player. I don’t mind having less control, I just don’t want that little control taken away from me at seemingly random points in the game for the game’s need to satisfy simulation.

  9. Toby Ross says:

    @Nick:

    The major issue with wanting an experience like the one you state is that we do not have the capacity to express all actions a footballer could with a controller. To take your second example, I find it preferable to see a player realistically decelerating than to have to do it myself in a way which doesn’t seem natural. I just can’t personally see a problem with that animation, and I can’t imagine many people do.

    Your first example is one that I can relate to much better, but, I don’t think that really proves in any sense that all such cases should be removed: we cannot have a situation where players, even the player we have direct control over, do not make contextual decisions.

    For example, it would be absolutely ridiculous to want us to react to block shots and passes with a particular button: the player has to react on the spot to the context in a way which seems realistic.

    I agree that work needs to be done to remove stupid behaviours which make no sense (like stretching for a ball which is clearly out of range), but, it needs to be done on a case by case basis.

  10. Toby Ross says:

    @Galloitaliano:

    If you actually believe there are cases where one player is going slower than the exact same player on the opposite team for any reason other than stamina, then you ought to be able to prove it without any question.

    The thing is, I don’t think I’ve ever experienced such a case. I see plenty of cases where my players don’t do what they should and plenty of cases where my opponents players don’t do what they should – but there is still a consistency to the way these things happen which makes me feel it isn’t a case of some cruel AI system choosing winners and losers.

    I’m not certain you’re wrong, but I simply can’t be certain you’re right. Most importantly, I’m not sure how much it matters. There are problems we can identify that are at the heart of most of the feeling of unfairness whether it’s being caused by scripting or just bad luck – if we attack those problems we will likely either find a solution or find evidence that scripting does exist.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on the existence of handicapping, I’m afraid. That doesn’t mean we don’t agree on the actual issues with what occurs, just we don’t agree on whether this is happening in a luck based way, or a scripted way. The problems are still the same.

  11. galloitaliano says:

    I understand. Although, I’d like to hear from EA themselves, from the Dev Team about this serious issue. I’m pretty sure the sluggishness, the lack of enthusiasm and lack of interest my players seems to suffer of it’s down to some sort of morale system within the code, perhaps it was added to Personality+. It’s my players’ idifference that’s killing me, it’s ruining it entirely for me and many gamers out there.

    You can still win under these circumstances though but I think the nuinsaces you have to go through are not worth the victory. I’d much, much rather lose or draw with my players being active and responsive than to win this way, it’s just not worthy; it’s not enjoyable, nor fun.

    The problem is that one team seems to have the advatange over the other, hence when you come up against a very good, skilled player you will have to go through hell and more often than not, you’ll get battered by your opponent if he’s good at the game. I’ve had games on which my oppnts quit on me early on the match because they just can’t touch me, they can’t get the ball off of me, and with the slightest of touch on the Left Stick I’m wiggling around their defenders, which is good, but I know, I know they are having problems, they can’t move their players or the AI is blatantly moving them out of position so I can have clear chances at goal.

    I got to be honest here though, I love the game, I think it’s fantastic and EA has done a tremendous job on Fifa 12. It’s brilliant what they’ve done. There’s planty of room for improvements, though. For me they should work more on the AI, particularly on the STATS department, there’s a massive problem with players stats.

    Perhaps it’s players’ stats what’s giving us the illusion of scripting/momentum or handicapping. Like I said, these problems are way more aparent when you play with Manchester City, Spain, England, Chelsea, Inter, Real Madrid or Barcelona. So it might, it migh have to do with stats because you hardly have to do anything as pretty much everything (tackle, positioning, headers, shots, passes) comes off easy for the gamer.

    Oh I forgot to tackle your stamina point. I don’t think it has anything to do with the stamina system, to be honest. I pay close attention to my players stamina bar to see how much energy they have left and when I check they have plenty of it, and despite having lots of energy/stamina they still seem sluggish. Another explanation could be the LAG, seriously, EA shouldn’ve think about it before removing the connection status bar, it’s simply a bad, bad idea. They need to bring it back by Fifa 13.

    I have some pretty good ideas that could help the overall experience (so I think), perhaps I should give my list to you guys, you can review them and then you can decide to pass it to EA/Dev Team.

    Cheers.

  12. Nick Harrington says:

    Why would you want to decelerate at all? I’m talking about the game forcing you to slow down because IT wants the ball to go out of play, not you.

    What you’re saying would be absolutely ridiculous already happens, pressing tackle results in a number of contextual animations from slide blocking shots to simply just sticking a leg out. That’s fine, but that is initiated by the player and that’s how it should be.

    Know how many people actually press the tackle button to tackle? Not many. Why? Because just charge your player close enough and the game will tackle for you. On the other side of the coin, my defender might dive in without me wanting to – completely leaving the striker through.

    There’s no need for this stuff. It negates rather aids imo.

  13. Toby Ross says:

    @Nick:

    I don’t think I’ve ever noticed my player decelerating when it was clear he would have got to the ball so I’m really not sure how that could be interpreted as the game wanting the ball to leave play.

    More over, you still haven’t strictly answered the point regarding blocking and interceptions. These are NOT user operated and for fast reaction saves/blocks/interceptions they simply cannot be.

    The problem here is evaluating which things the player should do automatically, and which things they shouldn’t. I don’t think a black and white policy could possibly cut it. The computer shouldn’t take over on things it doesn’t need to, but it definitely has to take over a lot more than never.

    @Galloitaliano:

    I’m pretty sure that EA have answered these questions before, quite a few years back now, and they have continually responded in the same way. From what I remember, they are perplexed at the complaint, have audited the code to ensure that no such scripting exists, and so on. Whether you believe them is up to you, but I can certainly see plausible explanations for the symptoms which don’t contradict what EA say.

    As for any ideas you may have, put them up somewhere and send me a link, I’ll take a look. No promises though, of course!

  14. galloitaliano says:

    Well… not much I can say, I guess. To be honest I don’t believe in EA’s word at this point in time, bro. I do believe, however, that there is momentum in the code, but we will never know, nor prove it though. The only way we could prove it, is if, say, an independent software engineer takes a look inside the code to see whether there is momentum in the game or not, but that would never.

    Moreover, even if EA gives permission to an independent software engineer to scrutinize/ransack the code, they might just remove the momentum off of it beforehand, so the engineer wouldn’t find it (of course, this is just a conspiracy theory).

    Personally, this is all the evidence I need to know there is momentum in Fifa 12:

    Momentum
    Football is a game of momentum, and FIFA 09 captures this perfectly! If you give
    up an important goal, beware as the onslaught may be forthcoming. When the
    momentum shifts away from you in the game, your players are slower, they
    make more passing/trapping mistakes, and they are easier to knock off the ball.
    Several times we have seen a comfortable 2-0 game turn into a 3-2 defeat as the
    CPU goes on a 5 minute tear.
    When you sense the momentum begin to shift away from your team, slow down
    the pace of the game and work possession. Make safe passes and try to avoid
    challenges with physical players. After a few minutes, you’ll even things out and
    can begin to re-establish your game plan.
    Conversely, if you score a backbreaker of a goal and sense the winds of change
    are blowing, then you might want to turn up the pressure. Shift to a pressing
    mentality and try to force your opponent into another mistake and a cheap
    turnover goal.

    Pay close attention to what it say in the above statement:

    “When the
    momentum shifts away from you in the game, your players are slower, they
    make more passing/trapping mistakes, and they are easier to knock off the ball.”

    I mean, isn’t this eactly how Fifa 12 feels? Isn’t what we all are complaning about? Is this “just pure coincidence?” I wonder… I think not. I think it”s not coincidence my players become slower, they make swful passes or they go astray for NO reason, or the opposition knocks off me of the ball with extremely ease… Again, is this just pure coincidence?

    MOMENTUM is definitely in Fifa 12, there is not doubt about it. I think EA addedd it with good intentions, perhaps to give newbies a chance to compete against veteran gamers, but they just went too far with it though because it has become an exploit online… I massive, massive, massive nuinsance.

  15. galloitaliano says:

    *sorry for my spelling and grammar mistakes*

  16. Nick Harrington says:

    Well tbh, you haven’t really answered any points. Simply glossing over them with another argument. Infact most of the points I raise are based around opinions that you’ve raised in the past, which just tells me you’re hell bent on typing the contrary to what anyone else writes. In future I’ll be a quiet observer and leave it at that. Cheers for the discussion.