PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

News from the Pro Evolution / Winning Eleven gaming world, discussions from the posts on WinningElevenBlog.com and general PES & WE discussions

Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Nik778899 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:14 pm

DESKPRO wrote:From 2010 interview

IGN: In the past, Pro Evo was regarded as a sim and FIFA a more casual game, but that's changing and both are becoming similar. Is that a conscious decision on your part?

Seabass: One side of that is true because I get the feeling that FIFA is trying to implement a lot of the stuff that we do, making it more of a simulation. However, we never set out to make PES a simulation -- that was never our intention. Basically, we want to satisfy as many users as we can, both core and casual gamers, and that has always been our goal. No matter what FIFA does that will always be our goal.

Adam said similar thing in recent interview

Interesting, as it suggests that they sort of stumbled upon it and now they're stumbling away from it.
I know it's been much maligned but introducing sliders to alter the gameplay to your taste would be a step towards satisfying as many users as they can. The one slider they have currently works really well.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Ameobinho » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:17 pm

It seems that Adam can only satisfy his shills with an invitation to some rigged event and then a proper seeing to that leaves them in awe of his amazing product :D
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby jameslv1986 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:27 pm

That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby DESKPRO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:41 pm

jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


Hoping 2019 sees major improvements. Just played MyClub and changed to manager with 433 formation. Happened to get opponent with same formation and it was one of the worst games I've played in terms of enjoyment. Acres of space on the pitch and just kept playing through balls. Also hope that whoever does the testing at Konami spots the obvious flaws. How could they have played/tested the game before release and not realised that there were far too many unrealistic back heels? Also hoping that FIFA 19 improves their gameplay/animations because think they have nailed everything else.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby kernowdoc69 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:51 pm

jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


Agree. The single player game and comp ai is poorly implemented in pes 2018. Some of the worst pes gaming experiences that I have ever had. The tactical game is a mess atm, players turning and running away when it doesn't make sense etc. Will see if 2019 is improved for single players, but the priority seems to be elsewhere.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Ameobinho » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:53 pm

kernowdoc69 wrote:
jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


Agree. The single player game and comp ai is poorly implemented in pes 2018. Some of the worst pes gaming experiences that I have ever had. The tactical game is a mess atm, players turning and running away when it doesn't make sense etc. Will see if 2019 is improved for single players, but the priority seems to be elsewhere.



The opposition needing a goal but not pressurizing you and letting you pass it round the back till the final whistle is just silly.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby bigol83 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:55 pm

DESKPRO wrote:From 2010 interview

IGN: In the past, Pro Evo was regarded as a sim and FIFA a more casual game, but that's changing and both are becoming similar. Is that a conscious decision on your part?

Seabass: One side of that is true because I get the feeling that FIFA is trying to implement a lot of the stuff that we do, making it more of a simulation. However, we never set out to make PES a simulation -- that was never our intention. Basically, we want to satisfy as many users as we can, both core and casual gamers, and that has always been our goal. No matter what FIFA does that will always be our goal.

Adam said similar thing in recent interview


Key words are "both core and casual gamers". That's not a bad thing. A game must sell, obviously they can't go, never went and will never go full simulation.

The balance Seabass is talking about was the good one, between arcade and simulation.

The problem is nowadays Pes is all about arcade and almost nothing is left of simulation. Now they are not trying to make a game for casual AND core gamers, now they are just trying to make the game as accessible as possible even sacrificing the last bits of simulation it still has, even alienating the core gamers that should be as important as casual gamers.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby bigol83 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:59 pm

jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


True. Pes true strenght was always to be easy to pick up and play but really hard to master. Recent Pes are nothing like that. One guy that has no more than one week of Pes gaming experience can destroy a long time Pes gamer just by picking the right overpowered team, setting passing assistance at maximum and just spamming the X button to chain several perfect passes.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Matt10 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:08 pm

bigol83 wrote:
jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


True. Pes true strenght was always to be easy to pick up and play but really hard to master. Recent Pes are nothing like that. One guy that has no more than one week of Pes gaming experience can destroy a long time Pes gamer just by picking the right overpowered team, setting passing assistance at maximum and just spamming the X button to chain several perfect passes.


Spot on, the challenge factor isn't there, and when it is there, it's not in an enjoyable manner against the AI. When the challenge isn't there, which is about 80% of the time for me, it's because I'm receiving charity by the AI. The defenders running away in a 1 v 3 situation or running around and spinning trying to make up their mind, etc.

The thing is PES 5 and 6 were not great positionally. PES 6 actually has a pretty terrible defensive line behavior. However, it did have a sense of tenacity that gave you little time on the ball if you were to get near a player. With PES 16 thru 18, you are given space even when you are nearing a defending player. It feels automatic/scripted - and it doesn't try to hide that.

Scoring goals in older PES were more rewarding because the process to get those chances was challenging. Then the physics of the foot-to-ball contact was always accompanied by a sense of not knowing what type of animation will appear. This what made it so incredible. That feeling of not knowing what that player will perform - or if the combination of buttons were pressed, or if the animation/physics changed because they were pressured, etc.

In PES 16 thru 18, I know exactly what animation will show up. I know how hard and perfect that cross will be. I know that I will strike the ball on the laces. I know that when I beat the DMF, the defenders will turn their backs and run (like doing windsprints) to their preset defensive line.

I still play PES 18, always trying to figure out different ways to get that feeling back. It's not super far off either. That is the most frustrating part because that is the same theme for PES 16 and 17.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby DESKPRO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:19 pm

Nik778899 wrote:
DESKPRO wrote:From 2010 interview

IGN: In the past, Pro Evo was regarded as a sim and FIFA a more casual game, but that's changing and both are becoming similar. Is that a conscious decision on your part?

Seabass: One side of that is true because I get the feeling that FIFA is trying to implement a lot of the stuff that we do, making it more of a simulation. However, we never set out to make PES a simulation -- that was never our intention. Basically, we want to satisfy as many users as we can, both core and casual gamers, and that has always been our goal. No matter what FIFA does that will always be our goal.

Adam said similar thing in recent interview

Interesting, as it suggests that they sort of stumbled upon it and now they're stumbling away from it.
I know it's been much maligned but introducing sliders to alter the gameplay to your taste would be a step towards satisfying as many users as they can. The one slider they have currently works really well.


You may be right. In another interview he mentions that PES 2010 was moving away from arcade like and back to simulation. Very interesting interview giving insights on their thinking at the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-SdNasOHM
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby kernowdoc69 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:50 pm

Ameobinho wrote:
kernowdoc69 wrote:
jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


Agree. The single player game and comp ai is poorly implemented in pes 2018. Some of the worst pes gaming experiences that I have ever had. The tactical game is a mess atm, players turning and running away when it doesn't make sense etc. Will see if 2019 is improved for single players, but the priority seems to be elsewhere.



The opposition needing a goal but not pressurizing you and letting you pass it round the back till the final whistle is just silly.


It is a pity that more funds were not allocated to the core game play instead of the pockets of retired legends.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby vital » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:53 pm

DESKPRO wrote:You may be right. In another interview he mentions that PES 2010 was moving away from arcade like and back to simulation. Very interesting interview giving insights on their thinking at the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-SdNasOHM


Bring back Seabass :lol:
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Nik778899 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:52 pm

kernowdoc69 wrote:
Ameobinho wrote:
kernowdoc69 wrote:Agree. The single player game and comp ai is poorly implemented in pes 2018. Some of the worst pes gaming experiences that I have ever had. The tactical game is a mess atm, players turning and running away when it doesn't make sense etc. Will see if 2019 is improved for single players, but the priority seems to be elsewhere.



The opposition needing a goal but not pressurizing you and letting you pass it round the back till the final whistle is just silly.


It is a pity that more funds were not allocated to the core game play instead of the pockets of retired legends.

Couldn't agree more. That and the Champions League licence that they don't really do that much with.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby miguelfcp » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:05 pm

No era una broma, Daniel. Mi mensaje tiene feedback serio y honesto, que pena que no puedas ver eso. Cuando la escribi en inglés tu la ignoraste, ahora en castellano hiciste peor que eso. Debo aprender japones para que mi feedback sea llevado en serio?

I for once have to agree with El Casual de PES, even if his delivery contradicts his stance: it's just a game, no big deal. If they come out with an innovative product I'll support it, if not, life goes on and there are other games out there to play. The great thing about looking at PES or really any game with a "casual" mentality is that we're not forced to play a crap game if we don't want to, whereas the hardcore mentality just insisted on having to deal with sh*t out of brand loyalty alone.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby DESKPRO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:05 pm

vital wrote:
DESKPRO wrote:You may be right. In another interview he mentions that PES 2010 was moving away from arcade like and back to simulation. Very interesting interview giving insights on their thinking at the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-SdNasOHM


Bring back Seabass :lol:


:lol: Guess it was the marketing talk at that time. Alas I don't think they met their aims. I remember buying all the PES games for PES3 and they were awful, hardly played them. The delay input, animations etc. The PS3 era was the start of the decline.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby vital » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:23 pm

DESKPRO wrote:
:lol: Guess it was the marketing talk at that time. Alas I don't think they met their aims. I remember buying all the PES games for PES3 and they were awful, hardly played them. The delay input, animations etc. The PS3 era was the start of the decline.


The problems that led to that era are well documented, which were mostly about them not being prepared and Japan falling behind in general. I'm not convinced that the underlying football gaming philosophy was ever bad with Seabass, he just wasn't able to make the leap technically, and so I never quite understood why he was so unceremoniously shunned. I think his attention to detail and love for the more underappreciated aspects of football do shine through at the start of that interview. He cites Lazio, Foggia and enjoying tight defensive games, which tells you a lot. Despite the fact PES was never intended to be a hardcore simulation, he was "one of us" so to speak. I think it's a little sad that we will never get to see a modern football game with his philosophy and vision and attention to detail behind it.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby vital » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:41 pm

Matt10 wrote:Scoring goals in older PES were more rewarding because the process to get those chances was challenging. Then the physics of the foot-to-ball contact was always accompanied by a sense of not knowing what type of animation will appear. This what made it so incredible. That feeling of not knowing what that player will perform - or if the combination of buttons were pressed, or if the animation/physics changed because they were pressured, etc.

In PES 16 thru 18, I know exactly what animation will show up. I know how hard and perfect that cross will be. I know that I will strike the ball on the laces. I know that when I beat the DMF, the defenders will turn their backs and run (like doing windsprints) to their preset defensive line.


Well put. It's the randomness and unpredictability and scrappiness that's underrepresented in modern PES. Apologists often show evidence of players scoring goals on their weak foot in real life as "evidence" that PES has it right, but what about all the scuffed and dragged shots and total miskicks? I saw Hazard completely airkick one on his weaker foot the other day. In PES 5/6 you could hit some absolutely embarrassing efforts. My experience of PES post-2014 has always been one where it feels bare bones in terms of outcomes, like you can really tell they've built this engine largely from scratch and they just don't have enough development into those areas to provide the equivalent sense of variation. But then there are two corollary questions that arise in my mind, which are to what extent is this perceived lack of variation an illusion caused by the way the games have evolved technologically (i.e. to be more generic and systems based), and if it's not why is the PES engine failing to deliver (and after several years of development might it actually imply the need for a fairly drastic overhaul in terms of how they hand shot physics/outcomes for example), I am certainly more inclined towards the latter.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby The PES Casual » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:49 am

Nik778899 wrote:
The PES Casual wrote:More right than you know.

Perhaps you should be more placid?

Interesting take that you have today. I asked you a fairly straightforward question earlier which was met with a condescending post of which the majority didn't apply to me and you've since called me "pricky-nikky" and a "wee testicle".

But I'm here trying to kick it off, apparently :roll:


And again trying to play victim.

You were throwing another users quotes back at them for them merely saying they had found some peace with the game. Militant, pedantic weirdness. What did you think you were trying to prove there? What was the purpose of that exactly? Were you trying to "out" him or something?

So weird.

You and others aren't aware but you are out of touch and don't get listened to for a reason. You hold no higher knowledge and can't even claim to have higher standards. You and others like you are narrow-minded and have completely lost the plot now.

Do you want to know why forums are dying? It ain't no reflection of the game but you and others are too blinkered in your belief that is the case to realuse that it just isn't how these games are discussed any longer. People operate in smaller communities now. Communities within communities. They pursue their own endeavours like PEN, FUMA and alike. There are PES/FIFA communities that operate within actual football forums and other groups on other social media platforms. There are micro-communities that utilise main hubs for some assets and maybe news. You don't even see them.

People are bored of the analytical echo chamber and its cult of personality. They are done with being spoken down to by rabid, militant assholes on the search for their own wee shill. These games have been knocking about for decades and folk know what they want, know what they like/dislike and also know what they are willing to put up with. You and others like you can't appreciate that fact; utterly blind to it so you use these wee safe spaces to bitch and whine about them while dreaming up nonsensical conpspiracies about individual employees of a company or the entire corporation itself. Maybe you will go down new exciting rabbit-holes like what is going on with a gif for an 8 month old game on the games twitter feed, or how an employee tweeted something in the midst of one of the craziest, fun and exciting midweeks of top-flight European football in years and you think he was having a go at your wee group! Lol, that was a damn high jumping of the shark by some very joyless people. And you or others dare wonder why things are a bit quiet on forums, or why you continue to find yourselves getting ignored? You's serious? Jesus christ :lol: It's quiet because if they do look in they see nik quoting some dudes posts back at him because his position on a videogame changed a wee bit, or read philla go off on one about how mature and real a player he is, or how Mutu has found a hidden critique of him in a tweet from a dude who doesn't even know Mutu feckin' exists. Absolute nut-bars.

You's are finished as a movement on this game and the other one. Completely devoured by football culture and you didn't see it coming because you foolishly thought there was only one strict template that needs adhering to when it comes to a football game: yours. Problem is it is dull, boring and runs cometely counter as to why folk love the sport.

You don't partake in wider football culture. You're not living it. The nearest you and your lot get to football culture is talk of Sky Sports scoreboards and sliders in a football game, after an afternoon on an armchair watching some games. You take it all too seriously which again runs counter to the spirit of why the masses love the sport at its core: because it is accessible and is relatable. The reason folks play the sport is to enjoy. It wouldn't be the most popular sport on the planet if it wasn't accessible and fun. It wouldn't be the sport it is if it weren't for the diversity. People play the sport because they enjoy trying stuff as well as enjoying competing. They attend matches, I attend matches, because although I seriously want my team to get a result I enjoy the social aspect. I enjoy so much around the event. Folk travel the world to take in as much in tge way of differing football cultures as they can before shuffling off.

Why do some folk support or even just prefer watching Shrewsbury while many more would rather watch Barca? Who are the bigger fans of the sport between those two groups? What group is the more knowledgable about the sport? You can't answer that as much as you can't answer why some folk prefer FIFA over PES or vice versa. You can't answer that much like you couldn't explain why maybe some dude might still think SWOS or Kick-Off were the best football games ever made, even to this day, but is a tactical genius on the real sport. You wouldn't be able to process that because you and your likes are so painfully narrow-minded. Thing is I fully expect one of you deeply analytical, highly intelligent clowns to try and offer an answer to those questions and would succeed in only highlighting further how dettached from reality and wider football culture you really are.

Less and less care for your or others idea of "simulation" because it is completely joyless as well as being dettached from the reality. You think you are being on point but you ain't. You miss most of it all out getting bogged down in positioning, broadcast assets, sliders and bespoke buttons for "driven" passes. You see more than three short one-touch passes and you start freaking out and start talking about deleting hard-drives. You don't know the sport because it seems like you just haven't kicked a ball about enough. You think the sport can only be played by super-athletes. You try to take tv style analysis and apply it to a videogame. Again, you are not operating in a reality that appreciates the sport in full, just the televised, packaged version.

You (and others) just don't get football. Period. It certainly comes across like that. That is why you get ignored and that is why you get more intolerant and militant as a result. You aren't embracing of football culture. You are anti-football.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby chilleverest » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:26 am

Personally for me, Seabass is the Hideo Kojima of football games. Older pes was his unrestricted genius in full effect, and konami were still the heartthrob publishers/devs among gamers. Its the new konami that ruined the franchise by sticking to the old 2008 engine while fifa was introducing the big 360 movements in fifa.
I remember b-man confirming here couple years ago (which he said he heard from his sources) that Seabass was in similar predicament as kojima's. I still believe with enough time and resources, Seabass can turn pes around. Current PES is like the new Metal Gear but without kojima, its all there but its just not PES.
Who ate all the pies?
Bring Seabass back.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby DESKPRO » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:53 am

chilleverest wrote:Personally for me, Seabass is the Hideo Kojima of football games. Older pes was his unrestricted genius in full effect, and konami were still the heartthrob publishers/devs among gamers. Its the new konami that ruined the franchise by sticking to the old 2008 engine while fifa was introducing the big 360 movements in fifa.
I remember b-man confirming here couple years ago (which he said he heard from his sources) that Seabass was in similar predicament as kojima's. I still believe with enough time and resources, Seabass can turn pes around. Current PES is like the new Metal Gear but without kojima, its all there but its just not PES.


At the end of interview he states how important feedback from fans was helpful and was looking forward to more feedback. ;)
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